WTF did I just really read?

[pitboss]

OK,
So I’m the new guy, but have to question some things anyway because that’s just the way I am. I’ve been around the game for awhile and I get that E-Feds need to move at a somewhat faster pace than real wrestling…however

1. How is that that the bounty idea is scrapped without it being even run by Kirk or myself?
2. How is the whole arrest Tiffany as a terrorist thing scraped?
3. Why are faces (Or at least faces in this instance) cheating to win?
4. How can the attacker of Rex be so suddenly resolved, when the parties involved in the idea haven’t even decided who did it? Also considering that I am under the impression that another team mentioned in a RP that they did it.
5. How is it that the Charitable Trust can get any and all heel heat ruined in one night?
6. We had plenty of things brewing in our RPs to keep the feud going until the Pay Per View, and in one card everything was shut down.

Yes, I’m more than a little pissed right now because all creative angles we have been working on to spice things were just flushed. I can handle losing (Kinda Sorta even though personally I think we RPed laps around them, but that’s a whole different rant with a whole ton of different reason you don’t want me to get into), but I can’t handle a full on debacle like I just read.

Considering how much stuff Kirk and I just did that was completely ignored, good luck trying to ignore what we do in our upcoming RPs. Thank you.

[Diego at work]

I'm gonna contribute to this thread a bit later in more detail, but I'm going to debate the charge that Rex' attacker was revealed without "anything being decided." It was decided from the get go, beyond the shadow of a doubt, and the parties involved know who they are. I oughta know, because I was one half of that conversation.

Everything else may be up to debate, but not that one. I mean, come on.

[pitboss]

It was agreed upon, but not which parties were involved in the actual attack.

[devastation]

I have to say some of the stuff that happened was very bizarre...killing off angles we were developing without any discussion. The bounty angle was not seat of the pants booking, it was a storyline that we wanted to develop not blow off in a week.

Faces cheating is a weird concept.

Plus I am still trying to figure out how the Bellagio gets attacked when allegedly it was the proprietor of the Gold Standard did it.

[Stylin' Kyle Roberts [REBEL]]

pitboss said:

So I’m the new guy, but have to question some things anyway because that’s just the way I am.

No problem. I certainly hope nobody will attack you for stating an opinion. Because it they did, they'd be asshats.

Now, that being said, can I tell you my thoughts on the situation? Keep in mind, I'm not speaking for Ryan in this matter, since he can certainly defend himself, and I'm not speaking for Allan or Tim (Ravager and Static's handlers).

If I was in the same situation as the faces, I know I'd be pissed by the developments in the roleplays by the Trust. After the third promo in which I have to deal with people going after me because of a bounty put on my head, I'd get sick of having to derail whatever story I want to tell because a bounty kept on getting higher and higher for the sake of "spice."

Because that would be what I consider having my hands tied. And I'd feel like I was being pulled along against my will.

pitboss said:

How is it that the Charitable Trust can get any and all heel heat ruined in one night?

Dude, if there's one thing I learned, is that it's pretty easy to get heat back in this fed. Let the faces have their day, because you'll be there waiting..

pitboss said:

Why are faces (Or at least faces in this instance) cheating to win?

Because the thing with NAPW is that there are only a few by-definition faces. Most are cheered regardless of their actual moral character. Except for Kyle Roberts. He's booed , period.

So that's my opinion. I don't think it was anything resembling a debacle.

[pitboss]

Kyle,
I can get behind some of that. Expect the being limited in your RPs. We didn’t force them to bring jobbers out of the woodwork, or camp in the ring, or leave themselves open as they did. As I have always seen role playing, take what your opponent gives you and turn it back on them. The whole goal is to out RP them anyway, and if you can set them up into something that they can’t creatively get out of, then it has provided you with an upper hand in the match you are role playing for. I’ve had my casino blown up, my penthouse blown up, my boat sank, etc etc etc, and have always found a way to make it work, that’s part of the game, which this is. Ok, so that’s my retort for the moment.

[stein]

jago said:

pitboss said:

Why are faces (Or at least faces in this instance) cheating to win?

Because the thing with NAPW is that there are only a few by-definition faces. Most are cheered regardless of their actual moral character. Except for Kyle Roberts. He's booed , period.

So that's my opinion. I don't think it was anything resembling a debacle.

See, this I kind of have to disagree with, just on general principle. Being an (BLEEP) outside of the ring and still being over with the fans (ala Stone Cold), and even cheating in certain ways (the Static chair spot in this case) is a different scenario than heel cheating. Unless it is an unchanging part of the character, as with Ric Flair forever and the Lie, Cheat, Steal Eddie, the kind of petty tricky cheating (eye pokes, feet on the ropes, pulling the tights, low blows) should not really be happening for the face side of the roster.

Put it this way. Ric Flair, again, gets away with it because he is just so blatant and everybody expects it from him at this point, they're basically just trademark moves of his. Eddie got away with it because he was cheating in creative and usually funny ways. But if all the faces started winning matches with a low blow/illegal rollup combo, they'd start taking heat pretty fast because people don't want to see it and they don't expect it.

This isn't exclusive to this one match; I've actually seen it happen a bunch of times and scratched my head over each of them. I tend to think that its becoming almost a trend for the understandable reason that the writers and bookers and looking at the effort put forth by both parties and going "Man, I really don't want this guy to just lose clean here". Just my guess at why. From a personal perspective though, I would rather see my guy go down clean than be perplexed as to why a face decided to suddenly take a weird cheating route. I would have been much more satisfied with the ending of this card, angle and other complaints that I share aside, if a dazed Devastation had turned around into a tight cradle courtesy of Ravager. Clean win, face win, but still something that isn't really Devastation getting knocked out by the Instant Karma for the three.

S'how I see it, anyway.

[nexusone]

The supercard event is in like 2 weeks so maybe the angle might seemed rushed, but we have one go home edition of MNF before the Show. So it all made sense to me. But I went with what I was told from day one. I feel this is my fault. I put the big curveball in stuff because my Uncle died, and my Dad had an heart procedure done the same time. Sorry that the solution we come up with didn't seem crystal clear. But I wanted to put huge heel heat on you two when everyone finds out that you too attacked a guy in his apartment, then lied about it to try and break up a team, and so Rex would kill Ravager. The angle is still hot... and I tried to add heat with my last rp. So angles don't always get seen with the same eyeballs. Opinions are everyones to have. But the angle is still good. You two should be huge a$$hole heels who almost killed the champ. You give that to a real wrestler and it would be gold. But that's only my opinion and I am sorry to have caused this big mixup. But I thought it was the hottest angle we've ever had and the wargames wouldn't be the end but the middle of an awesome feud.

BO

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

Rex, don't apologize too much. You had some real issues to deal with, and we worked around it. =J

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

Dave, that's a great point about the thing. NAPW is a fed where most of our faces are heels who've been turned by the crowd, but the tight cradle would have worked. I was going for a non-definitive finish, so no finisher (And I see it being difficult for Ravager to get Dev up for Instant Karma, or even to wrap his arms for the Dragon Suplex). I got carried away. *shrugs*


I might go change it.

[Stylin' Kyle Roberts [REBEL]]

pitboss said:

Kyle,
I can get behind some of that. Expect the being limited in your RPs. We didn’t force them to bring jobbers out of the woodwork, or camp in the ring, or leave themselves open as they did.

Certainly not. That was something Allan and Tim decided to do. But it works from a storyline perspective. When Salman Rushdie had a fatwah put on him by Islamic extremists, was he the guy who was walking around London doing his normal routine? Hell, no! Because he was afraid some fundamentalists would kill him in the street.

Now if I had a million-dollar bounty to some sort of unspecific threat to my health or life, don't you think people would come for me? Especially those wrestlers who were a) aware of the bounty because they have internet access and know about the goings on of other NAPW talent, b) hungry for money because they were jobbers and therefore not making money? Granted, you might get some higher tier guys than just regular job squads, but it's a lot easier to use those people who were either created as jobbers or have left the company because they're free use, and most everyone's involved in their own plotlines.

Sure, people might figure out a way to escape such a bounty. Maybe they're not as smart as you. Maybe their mind doesn't work in whatever devious way yours does.

Now, some people might disagree with me here, but even with the New and Improved D-X, the only guys who've been heels from day one and have stayed that way, when my partner and I write promos, we leave outs. Hell, because Kyle Roberts is partly a comic figure, he usually closes those doors by himself in the same promo (Check out Plan A, Plan B, and Plan K from February's D-X vs. Delivery Men matches.) We like to give and take with our opponents, instead of only taking.

What fun is it in castrating your opponents? Sure, you rack up wins, but you turn into Triple H circa 2001-2004. Good luck trying to find guys to play against.

For example, D-X could have taken the easy way out with the treasure hunt this past week, and had Kyle and Bruce come onscreen with the belts. "Well, that treasure hunt was easy. We've got satellite technology who showed us where the Dudes were digging. " Or to be less exaggerated, "Boy, those Dudes are stupid, leaving a shovel there to mark where it was."

But it wouldn't be fun to (BLEEP) over Scott in that way. So, no, we give and take.

So, no, there was no forcing to be done for the Trust vs. Static/Ravager. But simply upping the bounty every time something happened to counter it? Castration, in my opinion.

Don't even get me started on "Tiffany's a terrorist."

[nexusone]

Edit on my part theres two mnf shows left before the big show, but I stick by my thoughts that things were timed right for that match/feud.

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

jago said:

Don't even get me started on "Tiffany's a terrorist."

Ooooooh, I COULD get you started, bwahahahahaha...

[uzi]

Coming to this thread late, but it got me thinking about the current definition of a 'heel'. Back in the day, a person who cheated was synonymous with a person who got booed. Obviously that's not the case anymore, a paradigm shift whose most notable example was Stone Cold, who, honestly, I think was just a lucky mistake for WWE that changed the face of wresting.

So, what is a heel today? Is a heel the guy who cheat, or the guy who gets booed? It can't be both anymore. Seems to me that's a definition we need to clarify.

As an aside, I was impressed with Kurt Angle's flipping of the Stone Cold idea on it's head, when he became a guy who seldom cheated (when he first arrived) but due to his stuffy, arrogant attitude got booed. That man has got mad skills. His recent face turn was handled beautifully. Shame all the good wrestling these days is taking place at TNA.

[D!]

I just watched the tape of last night's RAW and was struck by the Carlito / Matt Stryker segment. Stryker's the guy who's actually putting up a semi-coherent argument about how it's backwards to want to be "cool" more than to want to be smart, and Carlito's the bad-ass who doesn't seem to care about anybody but himself. But Stryker gets the heel heat and Carlito gets the face pop. Why?

Simply because Carlito, despite his intentions, still comes across as more likeable than the shouty, obnoxious Stryker. And thus we have the anti-hero.

I just wish wrestling wasn't so dependent on anti-hero faces, mind you--watching everybody and their momma feud with their GM gets pretty old. Off the top of my head, the only real "hero" faces--the ones without "anti-hero" qualities--would be Hulk Hogan, and possibly a case made for Shawn Michaels. Any others?