WTF did I just really read?

[nexusone]

AJ Styles and Sting in TNA

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

Sting is the ultimate hero babyface. If he did turn heel, it was for like two days. Ever.

Rick Steamboat is the other hero. Legitimately never played the heel. But us Canucks couldn't follow NWA/WCW back then, so we wouldn't know.



BUT KURT ANGLE IS AN AMERICAN HERO!

[Ravager]

Sting was a heel. But it was in Vince Russo's WCW, so it lasted for about two shows before Russo saw something shiny, got distracted, then went and started a new angle.

And Ricky Steamboat never worked heel. And for that reason, Ric Flair says Steamboat can not be considered THE all time great. Which I think is kind of crap, but...

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

Ric also thinks Mankind is a glorified stuntman. Which in one sense he is. But he also drew money, had ring psychology, and could WRESTLE as well. And promo like mad. He wasn't Flair, that's all. I think there is value in stating that somebody who could do both heel AND face and draw huge as either is one of the best. Steamboat never tried, and maybe he would have failed. But saying any one wrestler is "THE" greatest of all time is flawed. There are many greats, many legends who shaped the biz, but not one wrestler is bigger than anybody.

Except, possibly, Hulk Hogan. I don't mean as a wrestling fan, cos a lot of his matches were crap. But nobody, not even Rock or Austin, is as embedded in pop culture's common memory as Hogan is. He was the biggest thing in wrestling. Could Rock N Wrestling have happened without him? Possibly. But I would say that Hogan is the greatest ever in terms of being an icon, drawing money and crowds, and making wrestling HUGE. He's not the greatest technical wrestler of all time, but is definitely the greatest professional wrestler of all time if you think about all that term includes. Of course the point can be argued, but as loved as Flair is, as much money as he drew, as popular as NWA/WCW was then, he was never quite as big as Hogan. WWF was worldwide, daddy.



Also Flair says Bret Hart sucked and wrestled the same match over and over. I love Flair, but he had a definite formula. So point is, Flair is occasionally full of shit in his opinions, but gave us a great DVD. If only he would retire...

[uzi]

I understand what you're saying, but I suspect it's a bit more then just the fact that Styrker was annoying, a Carlito is cool. I think there is also the fact that many (perhaps most) Americans envy the a$$-hat who can be a jerk, and get away with it. Our movies, music, and TV all glamorize the rude, jerk-off rebel who breaks the rules, but wins anyway sterotype, the exact came character who would have been the villian 50 years ago. The shame is, the rebel doesn't really work in a system where EVERYONE who succeeds is a rebel, then he's just being like everyone else. Thus we come to this point, where, as you point out, the world in inundated with the anti-hero hero.

[stein]

While his gimmick is to endorse something that most people would consider a good thing, education, Stryker also did very typically heel stuff during that promo. He ragged on the education level of the home crowd, he gave everyone in the crowd an F. I hadn't noticed Carlito getting any really good face pops before this show, and I think it was mostly a way to establish him as the definite face going into his match with Masters. Since Stryker pulled cheap heel heat, when Carlito came out in opposition to him, he was the face. They're probably hoping that feeling will carry over until his match with Masters, and then be reinforced by it since Masters is still definitely a heel.