Useless Efedding Info/ Video

[Jay O'Brien]

I think you're being a bit harsh, Ryan.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying about TNA not being consistent enough, and it sucking easily as much ass as WWE does half the time - but whilst the promotion IS WWE-lite in terms of business/power, I don't think the programming is THAT bad.

WWE has suffered, quite obviously, from big-fish-small-pond syndrome over the past few years - as in, only about a quarter of their product is even worth a watch - if that. I think TNA does way better than that. Fair do's, this upcoming PPV looks (BLEEP)ing diabolical, but in general, they're WAY more inclined to let their good wrestlers wrestle than WWE is. Benoit, yeah, he gets his ten minute german-german-german-german-crossface-escape-crossface-escape-crossface matches, but seriously, that's not good enough.

TNA is no ROH, but it's no WWE either, so it's just as much ROH-lite (on the wrestling side) as it is WWE-lite.

It's a kind of happy medium, and I think it's got a niche out there. Namely smarks. But still, a sizable niche.

Let's face it, the people that don't like WWE, that can't quite watch 3 hours (or don't even know) of ROH, they're going to TNA. WSX? It's already covered, but they'll probably take the ExTrEmE, impatient audience, crossed with people who know nothing about anything and think explosions are cool. MTV, basically.

But yeah, TNA - in the middle. Sometimes awesome, sometimes awful, but more consistent than WWE.

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

No! TNA is NOT more consistent than the WWE! What programming have you been watching for a year? Their entire booking style and tone has changed at least three times. When they first moved to prime-time it was like a shoot-style with longish matches. Under Russo, 37 wrestlers are crammed into an hour, Angle and Joe have turned face and heel about four times each in their feud (who the hell are you supposed to cheer for? Beuller, beuller), AJ Styles is now a heel because he was poor?, and a women's division is being started. WTF.

Maybe I am harsh on TNA, but you know what? THey don't deserve a free pass yet. Lance Storm had a fantastic essay on TNA a couple days ago. Here's an excerpt:

"WWE and TNA are in two completely different boats. WWE has a stable loyal audience that tunes in every week, buys enough merchandise, and orders enough PPVs for WWE to make money. As long as they don’t do enough stupid things to drive their audience away in droves they will stay in business. TNA on the other hand does not have a large enough fan base, and they do not order enough PPVs, for TNA to stay in business without financial help. So TNA needs to attract a ton of new fans in order to become a success. When your goal is to attract new fans rather than just not repel current ones you need to be far more careful and can get away with far fewer mistakes. "

www.stormwrestling.com/020507.html

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The card for Against All Odds

NWA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH
Unofficial Enforcer: Samoa Joe
Cage’s Consultant: Scott Steiner
World Champion Christian Cage vs. Kurt Angle

Hey, two former WWE guys are main eventing! Will it be a good match? Only if the "sportz entertainment" quotient of Joe and Steiner doesn't screw it up. Will it be worth much? I don't know. Cage getting a one month title reign is pretty shitty, and Angle losing now is kind of lame.

PRISON YARD MATCH
Sting vs. Abyss w/ James Mitchell

Does anybody really care? How is Sting the good guy? Abyss shot his dad, who cares! Sting: Worst Christian Ever (well not really). This feud has logic holes and ultimately, who cares?

X DIVISION TITLE MATCH
Champion Chris Sabin vs. Jerry Lynn

Does anybody really believe Chris Sabin is OVER? Anybody? TNA pushes him and pushes him and pushes him. Jerry is great and he can go, the match will be solid, but what does it really matter?


LITTLE ITALY STTREET FIGHT
NWA World Tag Team Champions The Latin American Exchange vs. Team 3D

TNA completely screwed over Team 3D when they first brought them in, and they've never recovered. LAX is the hottest thing in wrestling. If the titles are on the line there's no way LAX lose. Which pretty much cements the Dudleyz as the biggest choke-artists in TNA history. They're played out.


MOTOR CITY CHAIN MATCH
“The War Machine” Rhino vs. “The Phenomenal” AJ Styles

Match #4 in a four PPV series, and we still don't have a reason for AJ's heel turn. And honestly, trying to turn AJ heel with the TNA-loyal Orlando crowd, how well has it worked? Not very. Ding!

BASEBRAWL 2
Team Eckstein vs. Team Pierzynski

Who cares? It's not like it's going to spike the ratings. It's just a silly blurb in SI and on a couple sports shows.

CHRISTY HEMME’S TNA IN-RING DEBUT

Oh for God's sake.


JAMES STORM & MISS TENNESSEE vs. PETEY WILLIAMS & GAIL KIM

Could be fun, everybody in the match can go, but it really doesn't mean much. James Storm hasn't had much of anything since AMW broke up. He'll win, but then what?

PRESHOW MATCH: Sonjay Dutt & Jay Lethal vs. Serotoin

Why are Serotonin together? Does it matter? They lose as much as they did before they joined with Raven. Dutt and Lethal can go, hell, a year ago they were OVER as all get out. Now they're jobbers.


So Jon my question to you is, how in the hell can you or anybody think "MAN that PPV is worth forty dollars! Holy crap!"


I've given TNA almost a year now, they hooked me with Christian's debut and the awesomeness of Joe/Styles/Daniels. Despite the highlights (LAX), the shows have actually gotten worse since Double J took his sabbatical. I actually miss Double J being on top. Sting is worthless to the company, Angle is insane and overrated by himself and everybody who hired him (as much as it pains me to say it he hasn't really done much to make TNA bigger OR better). THey've already wasted Joe/Angle to the point where nobody cared about their third match. That's a WWE level mistake, blowing a can't miss angle.

The difference here is that TNA can't afford to blow so many opportunities. The right time to put the belt on Joe was last year at Bound For Glory. Joe wins the Four-way title shot match, then kills Jarett. Bam. Joe's lost a lot of steam. He's still hugely over, but they have to get the belt on him soon for a good run or they run the risk of screwing up the best thing in wrestling in YEARS.

[Jay O'Brien]

Well I did say the PPV looked (BLEEP)ing diabolical, and it really does. I mean, the top three matches might be worth a watch, but the rest... not even slightly interested.

Their booking isn't magnificent, especially since Russo came in (with his "WACKY" ideas - reverse battle royal, WTF) - but the bottom line for me is, I'd much rather watch half of TNA's wrestlers than I would WWE's.

Like you mentioned, guys like Styles/Daniels/Joe are worth watching alone, there's a few more X division guys that usually have good matches - Christian and Rhino are being used better in TNA (marginally), and I think Steiner's done WAY better since he's come back. All guys worth a watch. What have we got from WWE right now?

Batista, Taker, Cena, Lashley? There's only one main eventer worth watching, and he's a 40 odd year old washed up Shawn Michaels. The real talent don't even get on TV half the time, and there's just no variation.

They don't really have a cruiserweight division, have only recently got any kind of tag division (and that's by going BACK to old teams), turned ECW into something not even nearly extreme or different (only one extreme-rules match per show???), and on the PPV's we're left watching old timers and young muscleheads who can't wrestle worth a damn.

The talent is better on TNA (from a wrestling stand point), and they USE the talent better (although pushing ex-WWE guys over their own guys is an odd policy, letting Rhino "shoot" was awesome, letting wrestlers wrestle, Christian getting some credit, Joe ACTUALLY getting pushed, which Vinny Mac wouldn't have gone with, etc).

I'm not saying it's great, but given the choice, I'd pick TNA over WWE every time - except maybe for this upcoming PPV, but I gotta believe that's a one off, given that two of the last four PPV's have been very good indeed (I'm useless with names, but the PPV's with LAX vs. Styles/Daniels and... the one that followed it).

WWE is so blatantly coasting - but I always feel TNA is striving to get somewhere. Whether they know exactly WHERE they wanna go or WHAT they wanna be, your guess is as good as mine, but at least there's a bit of momentum, a crowd that ISN'T full of fly-by-night fans, and a feeling that something is being created, rather than something being dragged out. WWE hasn't even nearly inspired me with ANYTHING since Brock Lesnar debuted. And that's a few years ago.

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

TNA was my alternative to WWE, but if you really want to watch Joe and Daniels? Three letters: ROH.

Even if it's not ROH, there's tons of indies other people could tell you more about. Both major televised programs are just not worth the time.

Does anybody else besides me think that TNA should be charging less than WWE for their monthly PPVs?

["The Devastator" Kurt Castle]

admin said:

Does anybody else besides me think that TNA should be charging less than WWE for their monthly PPVs?

I absolutely agree with that. These companies get their business decisions reversed. They figure since they dont sell a lot of PPV views, they need to charge more to make money. I think if they dropped their PPV's to 20-25 dollars (American of course) they would probably make more money. Even if they sell just enough more to make the same as at $40, theyve at least got their product to more people, which in turn will make them more money in the long haul.

Brandon

["The Show" Chad Kurtis]

I agree that TNA should charge less for their PPV. I also agree that the need to rethink their all way of operation. I mean they are doing the WCW thing where they get a former WWE wrestler and push him just so that can rub it in McMahon face. Do they really think Vince gives a damn!?

They have some talent in LAX, Daniels, and Samona Joe, but they don't use it right they would rather push Sting or Cage. I just don't understand!

[Jay O'Brien]

Chad,

I don't think TNA operates with "teaching Vince a lesson" at the forefront of their minds - the fact is, though, TNA isn't just going for an indie or a smart audience, they want to be mainstream. Mainstream fans know who Sting is, and they'll know who Christian is IF they watched WCW/WWE. Everyone has heard of Kurt Angle. He's practically the current Bret Hart. But loonier, and not as good.

They won't know who Joe/Daniels/Styles are, aside from the TNA product itself.

They have to build those guys - so they're pushing the guys that are already made names first.

It makes perfect sense to me, dude.

["The Devastator" Kurt Castle]

I agree with that too Jon.

WCW never was competitive with WWE (or WWF at the time) until they started bringing in the big names from WWF. When names like Hoagn, Lugar, Savage, hall, and Nash showed up, it put them on the map. It's like wrestling free agency. Mainstrean peopl really dont care about what these guys can do in the ring, they want recognized stars. They want to play the "name game". And when you got a locker room full of guys that noone knows, names like Angle, Christian, and Steiner help thigns out.

BTW- I've heard enough from the Sting haters here He's of course not near as good as he used to be, but he's been my favorite since I was a little tike. And the fact that he never sold out and went to WWE, een when it was the cool thing to do in the early '90s, makes me like him that much more.

Brandon

[Stone Zellor]

But by bringing in the WWE guys, does anyone else think that TNA has become 'bourgeois'?

When they were an up an coming promotion they promoted the X-Division as their thing. Now that's Kevin nash 'helping' two guys further their career a little bit. Their headlining acts are what we could have watched in WWE last year! And sure I get TNA PPVs for free, just a month later (UK rules!) but even I don't watch them. So I bet good money I wouldn't pay $40 for them.

Vince Russo sucks.

I mean, if TNA is going to 'raid' anywhere, or hang around and wait for some contracts to expire, then why not go somewhere new and fresh? AAA, CMLL, NJPW, AJPW - basically a foreign market and do a bit of the ol' hard graft and build their own stars? Differentiate themselves from the WWE copycat bullshit.

VKM suck. That's Voodoo Kin Mafia. Suck.

Because I watched some TNA a while back and they broke kayfabe more then WWE do. Bullshit. (BLEEP) that. I'm not watching that crap. And seeing as the last wrestling product I watched was CZW's Cage of Death 8 (great show btw) I'm not in much of a position to talk.

But I will anyway. ;D

Yours faithfully,
Ben

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

I would argue that TNA did a much better job of building home-grown talent prior to the jump to primetime. Since then it's really been... not much. And I would definitely argue that TNA is actively trying to piss Vince off. Hellllooooo VKM. And before that, the "footage we can't air" of TNA stars going to WWE. TNA has absolutely tried to do the ECW "take shots at Vince" thing. According to Kurt Angle, TNA is going to beat WWE down and probably shit in their mouths.

The one problem with getting names is that... all those names except Christian were fired because they were problems or getting old/tired/no longer drawing. Scott Steiner's last great legacy was barely being able to suplex Triple H and then slipping off the ring apron and falling flat on his face. Angle can talk but he's so full of shit by this point who knows the real deal about his exit from WWE.

This isn't WCW raiding some of the biggest, hottest names in wrestling at their peak. Even Angle's entrance to TNA has not really sparked that much more interest in the promotion. At this point Kurt's reputation is "Krazy Kurt" for all the garbage he spouts in interviews weekly. TNA has never brought in a former "star" that has had a huge impact on their show.

Nash & Hall showing on on Nitro was SHOCKING. I mean absolutely shocking. But let's look at what happened when WCW first got Hogan, Savage et all - WCW didn't become number one. Hogan was a big deal no doubt but many WCW/NWA fans didn't LIKE that kind of guy. WCW's biggest jump was Nash & Hall, no doubt. Hogan brilliantly latched onto their heat and turned heel. At the time he was more or less washed up. I mean WWF fans were getting sick of him, you know?

I think it's a narrow argument to suggest that WCW got big "When they got WWF's guys." It was only around that time that Eric Bischoff pushed for a monday night show to compete with WWE and ultimately changed the way WCW was doing business. It's not like WCW wasn't big in the States before that. Flair was not unknown until he got to WWF. Love or hate Bisch, he had balls. Hogan and Savage didn't make WCW crazy, the NWO did. People were tuning in wondering what the hell was going to happen next! It was a surreal time to be a wrestling fan... because WCW was doing new things. It wasn't just ex-WWF guys. In fact I would argue that one of the things that ultimately killed WCW was the signing of every single guy who quit/got fired from WWE to a fat contract just because they could.

In TNA you have Team 3D doing... the same thing they were doing the last couple years of their WWE run. James & Kip doing a ten-year old shtick and then making fun of D-X. Nash is hysterical, but is it really helping the X-Division to have a bunch of skits instead of in-ring awesomeness? Sting is in great shape, he's worked hard, but TNA really didn't do much with his legacy for a long time.

I WANT to support TNA. But I don't find a one-hour wrestling show with irritating announcers, two-three minute matches and "PPV QUALITY MAIN EVENTS" that end in schmozzs four minutes in quality wrestling. Jon, if you want to watch guys wrestle you can't see in WWE, how is TNA better? They don't get time to wrestle on TV. Impact is brutally paced and badly booked. If they actually let the guys come out and wrestle even three ten minutes matches to go with 22 minutes of backstage/interviews/brawls...

But that hasn't been happening for a while. For the first time ever in TNA's history Jeff Jarrett is NOT on the top of the mountain. It was a sign of light, TNA finally figured out Jarrett shouldn't be the focal point of their shows. But since then it's actually gotten worse. When you can't make it clear who the face or heel in a "Dream feud" between Angle & Joe is... you've got problems. And not because a face/heel dynamic was the only way to do it. But they didn't do a face respect deal either.

Anyways I'm going to exit this argument now. If in six months reports seem to indicate TNA is picking up I'll start checking it out again. I'm sick of their insulting booking and insulting "WE ARE WRESTLING" shows that have ten minutes.

[Stone Zellor]

Why is Angle/Joe everyones dream match?

[Ravager]

The Christy Hemme interview is playing in the background as I type this. Right before this I had to listen to Mike Tenay commentate.

My thoughts? :

ECW, while not a great show, gives more wrestling in an hour than TNA does. And I know December to Dismember sucked. But that doesn't make TNA the savior of wrestling. Especially when they can't even be bothered to push their Heavyweight Champion.

JBL is a better color man than Don West.

As much as I think JR and the King are getting old, they still do a better job of selling what needs to be sold than Tenay does ( as in, shout about every move/promo like it is a life and death thing)

What I'm saying (and I'm sorry if I'm rambling):

TNA is over rated.

For good wrestling check out:

Ring of Honor
Chikara Pro (the Trios Tournament is quite good)
IWA Mid South (the 2006 Ted Petty Invitational has some of the most phenominal wrestling I've seen in years)

[Ryan Ro [NAPW]]

JBL is pretty much the best commentator since JR's prime. ANd he's that rarity in wrestling, a HEEL commentator. Yet he still does more to get the Smackdown mid-card over than anybody else.


I don't actually hate Don West. But TNA would really do well to have a different color man, one who doesn't gush over every wrestler. You don't need both guys getting mad to heel shenanigans.

["The Show" Chad Kurtis]

insatiableinsanity said:

Chad,

I don't think TNA operates with "teaching Vince a lesson" at the forefront of their minds - the fact is, though, TNA isn't just going for an indie or a smart audience, they want to be mainstream. Mainstream fans know who Sting is, and they'll know who Christian is IF they watched WCW/WWE. Everyone has heard of Kurt Angle. He's practically the current Bret Hart. But loonier, and not as good.

They won't know who Joe/Daniels/Styles are, aside from the TNA product itself.

They have to build those guys - so they're pushing the guys that are already made names first.

It makes perfect sense to me, dude.

I agree with you, kind-of. Mainstream fans remember who sting was! Was being the key word, and Christian was basiacly a glorified mid-carder for Vince. Now what he is a mideventer. I agree with you on Angle.
Another thing that hurts TNA is that impact is only an hour. Don't get me wrong I still watch TNA as well as WWE and anything else I can, but I also spend a lot of the time I am "watching" TNA and WWE on the computer, because I like who cares about this match!
They have to build those guys - so they're pushing the guys that are already made names first.

It makes perfect sense to me, dude.[/quote]

["The Show" Chad Kurtis]

devastator said:

I agree with that too Jon.

WCW never was competitive with WWE (or WWF at the time) until they started bringing in the big names from WWF. When names like Hoagn, Lugar, Savage, hall, and Nash showed up, it put them on the map. It's like wrestling free agency. Mainstrean peopl really dont care about what these guys can do in the ring, they want recognized stars. They want to play the "name game". And when you got a locker room full of guys that noone knows, names like Angle, Christian, and Steiner help thigns out.

BTW- I've heard enough from the Sting haters here He's of course not near as good as he used to be, but he's been my favorite since I was a little tike. And the fact that he never sold out and went to WWE, een when it was the cool thing to do in the early '90s, makes me like him that much more.

Brandon

Brandon, buddy you need to check all you facts. I mean I loved sting as a kid, too. But saying he never sold out and went to WW(F)E is only partly true, because at least on three different occassions he was in netiogation with WWE, but wanted more money then they would pay.
Also there is a big difference between Hogan and Cage. Come on, brother.